http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa? ... 2611100270
ebay seller bait and switch - Plano, TX
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 11:35 PST
Ebay Auction #: 4537933666
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... AMEWA%3AIT
I called this seller on Monday to find out a bit about the car (2002 Lexus) and inquire as to his reserve, etc.
He told me about the car and we hung up. He called back about 45 minutes later and offered me a $1500 discount on the car ($23,450). I told him I would need to speak with my wife, and we would see.
About an hour later he calls back and offers me an additional $1000 off ($22,500)....now we are below NADA wholesale on this car, and barely above Edmunds and Kelley. He says that his boss is going to offer this car to a wholesaler if he doesn't sell it in a day or two.
I returned his call about 90 minutes later to accept his offer. I ended up leaving a voice mail. I tried again that afternoon and evening, leaving one more voice mail.
On Tuesday 3/29 I called them first thing in the morning. Got ahold of the salesperson, who said that he had gotten my messages and the car was still available. I told him I would take it and pay for shipping.
He put me on hold to talk to his manager. When he came back, he said that they were talking with the wholesaler right then and that if the wholesaler wanted it I couldn't have it.
After much arguing and back-and-forth, they offered me a different 2002 Lexus, with 46K miles instead of 32K. My financing company would not give me the same deal on the 46K car, because their limit was 30K (they were willing to waive for the 32K)
I'm leaving alot of detail out, but this dealer lied to me a number of times in this transaction. What, if anything can I do? I'm not out anything other than we spent 3 days dealing with this issue. He made an offer, I accepted it. Then they switched to another car.
26 replies Date posted Reply #
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 11:36 PST 1 of 26
Oh, further detail...
this car was still available for buy-it-now on ebay through our entire conversation, and they only took it down when I mentioned "Then why is it still for sale".
playtowin7 (0 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 11:58 PST 2 of 26
Who cares? Next time, buy a new horse and buggy.
lonjack3 (305 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 12:41 PST 3 of 26
"What, if anything can I do?"
The big thing you can do is learn that if you snooze, you lose.
Exactly how long did you think you would have the exclusive right to buy when the car was offered to you? Also, did you honestly think that the car wouldn't be available for sale to someone else while you were making up your mind?
The wholesaler committed before you did. A clean low mileage late model Lexus is an easy sell, and if the wholesaler was paying about what you were or even a little less, the seller saw this as an opportunity to sell a car that might have been aged inventory, or a duplicate of existing stock. Chances are he worked with wholesaler before and knew he'd be rid of the car with no fuss, vs. having to deal with a retail buyer - financing, insurance, warranty, registration, "have to think about it", etc. Clean deal for the seller.
You don't say what they offered the other Lexus to you for. If the car is no longer available for sale, how is this bait and switch? You admit that they offered you the other car only after much arguing.
Those cars are bringing between $23-24k at the auctions now. Next time when you see a good deal on a vehicle at a wholesale price, grab it.
larryonline (14 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 17:43 PST 4 of 26
I have a stock answer when someone tells me they have to check with their wife.I tell them OK because i have to check with mine to see if it is OK if i sell it.
arkiehotrods (513 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 19:38 PST 5 of 26
You asked the question, "What, if anything, can I do?" I would ask you, what is it that you want to do? Do you want the dealer somehow punished because it didn't work out the way you wanted? Do you want to force the dealer to sell you a car he already sold to a wholesaler? If you feel this dealer is not on the up-and-up, then consider yourself lucky to not have completed the deal.
prince29669 (Private ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 19:53 PST 6 of 26
First come first serve. The dealer had apparently had a buyer in front of him with money. You put him off even though he made it clear that the car was going to be wholesaled "in a day or two". I've had this happen with customers who come on the lot, show some interest but want to think it over. We tell them, if someone else comes in and wants it, you lose. They always smile thinking we're trying to pressure them and then smugly walk off thinking we'll drop the price some more for them. Most successful dealers know what a car is worth and what it will sell for. If you see, want it and it's a good deal, then be prepared to at least show the seller the courtesy of a deposit to hold the car. You didn't do that. As far as he knows, you're just kicking tires. So, you'll know better next time.
car_connections (178 ) View Listings | Report Mar-31-05 21:53 PST 7 of 26
You outsmarted everyone including yourself. Would I be that dealer I would sell that Lexus to wholesaler even if I would get $200 less than you offered just not to deal with you. Out of "I have to talk with my wife/husband" every day, only 1 out of 10 decide to buy or even offer anything, as most of you know new kitchen/truck/house/kid/cat/dog/whatever/vacation is much more important.
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 12:56 PST 8 of 26
if I had come on here and said...I was taken by this dealer. The auto had this problem and that problem, you all would have said...."you should have done your homework"...you should have checked out the vehicle and the dealer...etc. etc.
So I spent 90 minutes doing just that and called them and accepted the offer.
The vehicle was still available nearly 24 hours later. It was only at that time that all of a sudden that vehicle at that magic price was no longer available...but another one with 13K more miles was.
It sounds as if you are all dealers just defending the dealer. This is CLASSIC bait and switch, the only thing missing was the ad in the paper.
I know now why I despise dealing with car dealers. This situation was entirely unreasonable. We wasted a ton of time on this vehicle that was never truly available for sale to me at the price quoted by the dealer. This is what you are missing.
If I had accepted his offer IMMEDIATELY on the phone .... and there was any problems at all, you ALL would have blamed me and said you have to do your homework.
What a joke.
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 13:01 PST 9 of 26
To the questions above:
Different Lexus, same price, different mileage (one that my financing won't cover at the term my budget can afford).
What did I want them to do? Deal with me in the fair, honest manner I dealt with them. They told me I had a day or two. I called them in 90 minutes.
All of you may think all of your buyers are fish. But I'm not going to spend $25,000 on ANYTHING in my life without checking it out first. The fact that I'm not an immediate expert on the various values and levels of a specific automobile is what the salesman is for....apparently to most of you the salesman is for one thing: cashing his commission check.
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 13:07 PST 10 of 26
Didn't post a deposit because the salesman didn't ask for it...he said I had 24-48 hours.
lonjack3 (305 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 13:49 PST 11 of 26
Referencing you comments-
1) When you called back, you didn't talk to anyone. You just left a message. Whatever it was, it doesn't mean a thing.
2)Exactly what homework is it that you did during that 90 minute period that had to do with the vehicle's condition?
3) If the vehicle was sold to someone else before you made up your mind, it isn't a bait and switch. Also, the very definition of "bait and switch" is that the item it advertised. No ad.
4) The vehicle was available to you on 3 separate occasions when you talked to the dealer. By the fourth time he had sold it to someone else.
5) Wasted a ton of time? From my calculations from the very first phone call to when you left the message was 3 1/4 hours. Plus what, 15 minutes for him to tell you it was no longer available?
6) Contrary to what you may think, you did not have an exclusive right to buy the car for your 1 - 2 day period you keep talking about.
7) The salesman tried to do his best to get you to buy the car. After all, if you don't buy, he doesn't get paid. If you believe that it is the salesman's job to educate you on the values, you are indeed a fish. As a consumer, I feel that it is in my own best interest to determine them. Don't you feel that there may just be a small conflict of interest if you leave that up to the salesman?
You weren't paying $25k, you were going to pay $22.5k. As you can see, it would have paid well to have become an "expert" (your term) or at least have done some prior homework as to what these vehicles are worth.
When opportunity knocks on your door, even if your excuse is that you were on the commode, the results are the same if you don't answer.
You can throw yourself a pity party, but no one is coming.
midorimeadowsllc (315 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 14:32 PST 12 of 26
Ain't sold til the money changes hands. I've had people tell me they'll get back to me and they never do. Doesn't matter what the item is this happens all the time. I never turn down someone giving me a price I'm willing to take if they have cash in hand. Sounds like someone just had the cash in hand before you did.
Sorry it happened to you. Move on. Or as BF always says, get over yourself.
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 16:59 PST 13 of 26
ok ... Didn't figure to get an honest answer from the shark pool anyway. What you guys aren't getting is that the car was NEVER available to me at that price. When I finally WAS able to get ahold of someone at the dealership, he said it was still for sale. Available. I said "I'll take it". The amount of time elapsed up to that point doesn't matter, except that *I* had tried to contact them and the incompetent dealer didn't return phone calls.
I said "I'll take it"....he said fine, let me get my manager to write it up. THEN and only then, after a long delay, did they decide the car wasn't available...but one with 13K more miles was for the same price. BAIT AND SWITCH. I guess you just don't expect any dealer to be honest...including ones in this forum.
treasurejunk007 (22 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 17:00 PST 14 of 26
Oh, and time? Yes time. Time to contact my local county treasurer office to find out how much tags would be. Time to contact a shipping company to find out how much shipping the car would be. Time to contact my insurance agent, get those quotes. Sheesh people...your customers are human beings...
prince29669 (Private ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 17:14 PST 15 of 26
in't sold til the money changes hands. I've had people tell me they'll get back to me and they never do
Ain't it the truth! I wish I had a nickel for everyone of those I've heard. Shark pool, Ppffftt to you sir. You just heard the other side of the story. How many salesmen have missed family outings waiting on a customer who never showed up? Or spent an entire afternoon showing a car only to have a customer say he's going to think about and the go to another dealer and use the first offer as a club to beat the price down a couple of hundred. The salesman is human too, my friend. He's serious about his job, it's how he pays his bills and juliet oscars who say, "I just want to talk it over with my wife/priest/shrink/witch doctor/whatever." and then never even have the courtesy to call back and say they've changed their minds. Bait and switch means the car never existed in the first place. Sounds like it must have been a good deal if it got wholesaled out from under, the one that got away. Now you know how it feels to work a deal only to lose it to someone else for five bucks less a month in payments.
fraudchaser44 (31 ) View Listings | Report Apr-01-05 17:18 PST 16 of 26
To the OP....what lonjack says is it,period....you stalled the seller,didnt buy when first offered...you cant honestly expect him to wait till you make up your mind,can you??..The world of car purchases doesnt revolve around you.....he hadnt TALKED to you ,so his manager offered it to the wholesaler who knew a good value....get over it and next time ,be ready to buy,when opportunity knocks....budget your shipping and car money in advance before this happens again...you had no deposit on the car,therefore he was free to sell to anyone....Sounds like he tried to sell a similar car to you, since you like those, that is not bait and switch....Take a learning pill ,and better luck on the next one..
carzamerica (310 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 04:45 PST 17 of 26
to treasurejunk, 1st off you said "I'll take it" suppose a day later you decided not to "take it" you would you have paid them for the car and then sold it yourself...er um I don't think so...would you have at least sent them 500 dollars for their time and holding the car...er um I don't think so.
You consumers all are the same...STUPID !! boy when something doesn't go your way...its call the attorney general, i'll sue...you owe me etc.. bait and switch, fraud...whatever works for you...did you send him a DEPOSIT..er um no..could have done that immediately by paypal. Every car dealer will say the same thing "if i had a dime for every "i'll take it" I would be retired by now"
And the above post is correct...bait and switch is when you DON'T have the car and try to move somebody to a different one...that usually happens in newspaper ads......he DID have the car and SOLD it to someone else who paid him with MONEY...not "i'll take it"...why don't you have your mommy call the dealer up fpr you and cold him....grow up for crying ouy loud.
carzamerica (310 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 05:16 PST 18 of 26
follow up...I meant to say call the dealer up and scold him.....also just to show that I am not always for the dealer...I dont think a consumer has to do any homework other than ask questions of the car, he has a right to expect what was described...I have purchased 4 MGBs from CA...3 of them before I was in the car business...all with great results...mainly because i treated the guys on the other end like human beings.
It is amazing that people think that because they are looking at the car they have the right of 1st refusal...it simply does not work that way.
I had a guy come in and looked at my 72 Buick Electra 225...nice driver with 72k on it,,,ran well, he looked at it 3 times and drove it...really like it said could he take it to his mechanic...I said sure, if it is available....no deposit was given.... later that day....sure enough somebdy else saw it, drove it, loved it, bought it.
a day later the 1st guy calls to tell me he made an appointment for sat with the mechanic...I obviously told him it was sold......Boy did he think he was ripped off, he told me he was going to sue me for fraud, misrepresentation and anything else he could come up with. I said to him...money talks..bullshit she walks...and that was that....like I said most consumers are sooooooooo stupid and they get treated as such.
midorimeadowsllc (315 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 09:06 PST 19 of 26
I'm not a car dealer. Don't know why I hang out with these bums. Ya snooze ya lose. Get over yourself, your whining is getting old. You aren't out any money. Someone beat you to it. The time to do homework is before you are looking so you can jump on a deal when it presents itself.
jr-bunch (21 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 17:14 PST 20 of 26
Sharon, we may be bums, but we are loads of fun and provide lots of free quality entertainment on EBMDB. Could be one reason for hanging out with us. Have a double Black Jack on me.
tony1963 (384 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 19:20 PST 21 of 26
Just another idiot trying to get something for nothing.
2*many*cars (182 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 21:22 PST 22 of 26
Y'all should read the OP again...
kingrandyautomall (1 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 23:18 PST 23 of 26
Can you tell me the reserve?
2*many*cars (182 ) View Listings | Report Apr-02-05 23:21 PST 24 of 26
Yes-the reserve on the lobotomy you requested is four thousand euros...
playtowin7 (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-03-05 07:06 PDT 25 of 26
Yuck. Next time, buy a new set of sheets.
rectal_examiner (0 ) View Listings | Report Apr-04-05 03:38 PDT 26 of 26
Personally, I'll side with the Op on this one.
He's right when he says it sounds like you are all a bunch of dealers. (Sharks in the pool)
Sure smells like that nasty 'Aqua Velva' to me! You say he's a whiner, but you should read your own posts, because if whining were an Olympic sport, you guys would win the gold!
Out of the many vehicles I have purchased in my lifetime only once did I have a pleasant experience with the salesman. I'll agree with you guys on one thing, and that’s that nobody likes a time waster.
But too often from my point of view, the person doing the time wasting is always the 'salesman' and his 'manager'. With the exception of the one pleasant buy I mentioned, I would say on average, I've spent no less than 6 hrs. per vehicle in most dealerships, waiting while one of you fine shysters, err…I mean salesmen, continues to run back & forth to your 'manager' in some silly game of ‘booty-pinch’.
That’s what I call it when you run off for the eighth time to “Run my offer past your sales manager”
And you complain about buyers using the "Let me run it by my wife routine"?
Then, when I would finally get tired of wasting my time and get up to leave, that’s typically when the salesman will shuffle his papers around a little faster and jump from his chair as if the ex-lax was kicking in and start promising me to get my offer past his sales manager even if it’s the last thing he does before his double-wide is foreclosed on!
He returning with his sales manager would usually follow this, and the next ½ hour would be spent with both of them double-timing me.
And one of my other favorites you guys never seem to fail to sputter is the
"What's it gonna take to put you in this car today" line that I usually hear after four hrs. of telling you what it would take to send me home in that car. DUH!! Talk about falling on deaf ears!
After all, I research the vehicles I intend to purchase and believe I make reasonable offers based on the materials available to the average consumer.
And those ‘materials’ I might add are usually six months behind - as far as pricing goes - compared to the data available to the dealerships.
Besides, the way I see it, my offer couldn't have been that bad or you would have just wished me good day, right?
I’ve noticed how you guys have tried to improve your image by wearing better suits, but the same polyester & gold chain wearing shyster lives on inside.
And alas, I too, can hear the wispy sound of tiny violins playing as you weepingly complain about customers that don't return from ‘Checking with their wives’.
Did you perhaps, ever consider that maybe it was the cheap drugstore cologne you bathed in before leaving for the office this morning that drove them away?
If being a car salesman is so tough, I suggest you stop whining and look for a less stressful job like 'night cashier' at your local Zippys convenience mart.
Check the following post for a fine example of automobile salesmanship...Sure, they corrected the mileage at the top of the ad in the info box, but gee, they somehow overlooked the two mentions of the incorrect amount posted in bigger type in the vehicle description.
http://forums.ebay.com/db1/thread.jspa? ... 2553769787
Now as my user ID implies, I see there are many of you here that need exams...
(The 'SNAP' of latex against skin can be heard in the background as the gloves go on...)
Page 1 of 1
1 post • Page 1 of 1